Recently, Vivian Baker's sister, Vanessa, visited Los Angeles. During their time together, the sisters tried out new makeup looks.

Photographer Chris Williams observed the sisters having a discussion about the experience, and The Makeup Light's lights, so he turned on the camera. What he caught was an honest conversation between sisters about light, makeup over 40, and beauty. Watch it or read the transcript below.


Vivian and Her Sister Discuss Light & Makeup Over 40 Transcript: 

Vivian: We spent a couple of days exploring different looks with you. And, you're not a professional makeup artist is not what you do.

Vanessa: [00:00:09] No, no, no, no.

Vivian: [00:00:10] I mean, Would you call yourself an enthusiast when it comes to makeup?

Vanessa: [00:00:14] Um, more or less, I mean, I'm enthused about it simply because I know my sister's in that world and I love, you know, I love seeing what she's done and then see if I can't recreate that.

Vivian: [00:00:27] But. And you like wearing makeup yourself.

Vanessa: [00:00:31] I am a makeup person. Uh, I'm recently trying to get used to 65, retired from a career position, but in a part-time position, um, I'm trying to get used the au naturel, which is hard, you know, because I'm used to wearing makeup all the time.

Vivian: [00:00:49] So you came here and we, we've done a series of looks on you mostly for our own exploration. I think, you know, we've gotten some photos and I think you've learned a lot about lighting. We've done some super natural stuff and you know, all the way to this, which is fairly glam. I mean, you can, you know, I mean, this has got a lot of technical things to it, you know, but you could still go easily to a wedding like this yourself, if you wanted to.

Vanessa: [00:01:20] Yes. I would love this look for my wedding.

Vivian: [00:01:22] But of all the makeups that we've done from the super natural to this one, you have a favorite?

Vanessa: [00:01:28] I like this one a lot, just because it's so glamorous than I think, I think I look great! Because you see the, before pictures, you're going to go wow. But, uh, yeah, no, this is. This is a lovely look. It's a comfortable look. I don't feel pulled or I don't even feel like I have makeup on.

Vivian: [00:01:52] Oh, that's pretty impressive.

Vanessa: [00:01:53] Yeah.

Vivian: [00:01:54] Um, but if you, but when you get back to your real life, you're going to want to recreate some of the stuff on your own.

Vanessa: [00:02:01] That would be nice. It will be hard. I'm, you know, busy kind of observing what you were doing, but I know I can't pull half of this off. I don't have a steady hand. Um, But. I have some ideas now, and I am willing to try.

Vivian: [00:02:19] So what do you think that you're missing at home? What would be what you would need at home?

Vanessa: [00:02:24] Well, obviously without question is the light, because I just have my normal bathroom light, but you know, Home Depot floods up there or whatever. I mean, that's not adequate. And I at home, I always, always go over to the window and use the natural light, but that's when I'm putting on makeup in the morning.

Vivian: [00:02:44] So when you go to the window, you have to hold a mirror.

Vanessa: [00:02:46] Absolutely. I have to. Yes. Either have to hold a mirror and it usually, it's just a little compact mirror, you know? Cause I don't have anything else or even if I have to hold a bigger mirror, I mean, that's hard because now you can't like do this. If you need to do this. You know, to put your eyeliner on or whatever, you need two hands, but now you're holding your mirror so you do need  good light so you can really see it's very awkward.


Vivian: [00:03:08] What about all those other makeup mirrors that you can buy at bed bath and beyond?

Vanessa: [00:03:14] Yeah. Well, we all know those are crap.

Vivian: [00:03:18] We have a new light hear that we've been putting up that's around. We've got some photos of you in the light.

Vanessa: [00:03:24] Lovely.

Vivian: [00:03:26] With that. Would that work for you?

Vanessa: [00:03:31] Yes. Yeah. It was like you and right.

Vivian: [00:03:35] Could you give me one!?

Vanessa: [00:03:37] Yeah!

Vivian: [00:03:37] But, okay. But here's the thing. So here you are in from, from professional world and you're trying to wear less makeup. So why would now in life you be more interested in light than you were two years ago when you were five years ago or two?

Vanessa: [00:03:50] I think just because I'm getting older, I'm about to get married.

I'm with a younger man that I want to stay looking younger, obviously, and beautiful for him. I've already noticed that he appreciates, you know, that I do put on makeup and look nice for him. He's actually, commented on that. And it, it, you know, I like myself with makeup. I do look better with makeup.

The only time I don't look too terrible is like about to go to work out my hair's in a ponytail and nobody cares because I'm just going to go sweat.

Vivian: [00:04:19] And it's we did a make-up on you when you first got here. We didn't make up on you. That was all, you didn't have any makeup on. I knew it was all a sustaining kind of coloration process. And. You know, one of the things that you said is that your brows really, really you've lost a lot of hair and brows just because you're, you know, they become very, very soft and you kind of want to be okay with it because you want to stay appropriate. You want to feel as comfortable being without makeup as you do with makeup.

And I have to say that, you know, while I think you look really glamorous here, if I had to stare at you in this makeup the rest of the day and everything we did, it would become annoying. But I think the makeup we put on yesterday, even with the same red lipstick, I would never get tired of looking at it and I would never look at you and go, you might be a little old for that in this particular lighting you know?

Vanessa: [00:05:09] And that was a great thing about that makeup. Yeah. There was a lot of structuring you did, and setting the foundation, watching Vivian work as the master artist, that she is quite amazing. I know as someone who desires to paint and maybe, wanted to paint at some point in my life working with watercolor is probably one of the hardest paintings that you could ever do.

And yet here she is putting these washes on my face in such a way that the contours are, are making the shading and such that it enhances a beauty without really putting any color on there. I mean, the colors were so washing, um, Then that it was hard to even believe that they were on there. So the natural glow of my skin and the many freckles that I have were still showing through, but it looked fine.

I mean, you set that foundation so nicely and then that bright red lipstick. Did add an element of "you have makeup on," you know, I don't think we had really any eye makeup on.

Vivian: [00:06:06] You didn't have any mascara on or anything. Yeah, we liked it best with the no mascara eye, but there was

Vanessa: [00:06:12] some attention to the eyes, which I don't know how to do probably would we'd have a hard time doing.

Vivian: [00:06:17] Yeah. I think that's kind of the point of getting at, do you think that you could do that with your running to the window set up?

Vanessa: [00:06:26] No, no way. Why don't I, I don't think I could do that. Um, because I really would have, I would really have to see, like an artist is working on his canvas. He has to step back and take a look at the overall you come in and you're working on the detail, but then you have to step back and take a look at the overall.

Um, as someone who was an artist in school, it's been many years ago. I never made it my career, but there were times that you didn't see everything you were doing until you stepped back and looked and get the whole, and then realize something is missing that seeing the whole of it. And I think that's what this, the idea of this light does is it gives you the ability to see what the rest of the world is going to see no matter where you are, whether you're out in bright sunlight at the pool, or whether you're going to be in dim candle light, you know, at a romantic dinner with your loved one. Um, knowing that what you've put on your skin that day is going to be true to whatever light you're in.

That's what was fascinating.

Vivian: [00:07:34] You experienced that, didn't you

Vanessa: [00:07:36] Yeah

Vivian: [00:07:36] Tell me what happened

Vanessa: [00:07:37] when I asked the question. If I put this light on, could it, could I, if I use this light to put my makeup on, could it look wrong? Could my makeup look wrong in any other kind of light? Because I'm using like full spectrum sunlight using your light, um, which we all know is going to tell you the truth, about who, what you're really seeing. And so Vivian made me take a mirror and we walked through everywhere. We went outside and went into her bathroom and went to dim light, went into, uh, just some incandescent light.

And my makeup was true. Every place I went, it was, it wasn't wrong. It was the same. And that was frankly amazing.

Just. Amazing. I couldn't believe it.

And even when we got to where it was like really blue light, you know, uh, they're going to have those harsh lights in offices and stuff like that, which generally would wash you out. And totally it even looked glamorous there. I mean, I couldn't believe it. And so the lovely, lovely, this makeup, wherever we went, whatever light we went in, it was astounding, right.

It really was.

Vivian: [00:08:40] And you're wearing, at 65 years old, you're wearing a lot of powder.

Vanessa: [00:08:45] hmhmhm.

Vivian: [00:08:47] Yes. Putting it on. Yeah. It's interesting. It's a lot of powder. I mean, you know, I don't know we revealed and we blocked a lot of brows out here. I mean, there's some, there's some stuff here that's, you know, it's, it's more than just piling on some makeup, but.

Um, we experienced doing you just a little bit of movement around in your skin tone and a little bit of stuff. And even putting on that red mouth from no mouth color to that red mouth really made some dramatic stuff. And I don't think that we could have found that without the proper lighting, or we could have seen it, to have discovered that.

What do you think?

Vanessa: [00:09:26] Yeah. I totally agree with that. I don't, I think I would have just probably chosen whatever was in my bag of tricks because that same light that I've looked at myself in every day. I'm never going to know exactly what any other kind of light is going to show me up as. So I just do the, you just do the same boring thing

Vivian: [00:09:45] So then after being here and having the experience of someone looking at you and working with you and meeting the detail with you and finding everything from the super natural, to something this dramatic.

Do you feel like that you've found places have you that 65 years later, you never knew you had, do you find that you find looks or abilities or beauty in yourself that you didn't see before?

Vanessa: [00:10:09] Well, I can't believe, I think this look, you're right. Yes I did. Um. Yeah. 65. I mean, I'm old, let's face it and there's a lot of wrinkles here that tell that story. But, somehow you were able to make, just make this glamorous. I feel young. I feel youthful. I feel beautiful. I feel like I have a sparkle and a bloom, you know, as someone much younger.

Vivian: [00:10:36] And here's the thing. When you walk into a room, makeup, makeup is not about what look, you walk with that sparkle. I mean, I've known you my whole life and I know that you have it, but I think what's most interesting what makeup does is it can take you, ... you're walking into a room, telling someone what you want them to see.

You're walking in a room saying, no, I'm not an old fuddy duddy. Don't discard me. No, I am someone who has taste. No, I do have power. No, you need to listen to me. I am fun. And, you don't. It, it can take years for someone to know that about you. It can take a lot of opportunities for someone to meet you, to know what you were about and the precious thing and lovely thing about makeup and hair and wardrobe and all the stuff that we choose is that you get to walk into a room and let them know a lot about you because you made those choices.

And even both makeups, we did say a lot about you. You're equally as beautiful in both. But it tells two different people and you get to tell it to different stories. You know, I think it's amazing. And what I, what I love about. But the reason I care so much about light is I don't think we would ever find those stories without it.

All the makeup in the world doesn't mean anything if we can't see what to do with it.

And one of the reasons I wanted to work with you was because, A, I think that I see so much on social media, about women over 40, and they're freaked out to do anything to them, and we over shine and we did everything you're never supposed to do.

And she's covered with powder. I did everything you're never supposed to do. And it's worked.

Vanessa: [00:12:13] Yeah, we broke all the rules.

Vivian: [00:12:14] We broke all the rules and it's worked, but it's because we could see. So you're seeing yourself with your eye. And I think that it's going to change how you walk into every room, whether or not you even put it on.

Vanessa: [00:12:27] Having makeup on and knowing that no matter what room you're going to step in.

What space you're going to go in, regardless of what that light is. And you know that it's going to look like what you've put on because you're using this true, you know, as close to God light as we can get, and you're putting your look on. You look good, you feel confident and that's, that's what, it's all about. A confident woman,

I don't care if she has beauty or not. You know, if she is a confident woman and you're confident in that makeup that you've put on those clothes you've put on and you step out into the world, that speaks volumes, whether you are going to your garden club or whether you're going into your workout, with just lipstick on, or whether you're going into the boardroom, you know, Or you're making a political statement or putting yourself in a Facebook?

You're confident.

Vivian: [00:13:23] Oh, I love you.

Vanessa: [00:13:25] Oh, I love you.

Vivian: [00:13:25] So glad you're my sister.

Vanessa: [00:13:26] This was so fun!